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Pre-Tribulation

Can you Biblically prove a pre tribulation rapture?

Why is it that the apostles never asked Jesus about pre-tribulation rapture and why did he never mention it. If you want to teach something that you say is Biblical then it must be found in the Word of God first. To say that, "He will come at a day or a hour you think not," the same thing can be applied to the second coming.

For example: Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

If we keep with tradition and in proper context of the tradition, it makes reference to - Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So it would be suffice to say that no one will know the day or the hour for either events, if indeed they are separate events.

The challenge to you as a reader is this - Where did Jesus say that he would come back first for the believers that were ready and then come back for the second part of the rapture when he descends on mount olive. You will never find it! It's like a secret hidden message that only through putting various scriptures together you can formulate the pre-trib conception.

How to prove pre-trib rapture -
1. First you assume it is what God will do
2. You get a bunch of scriptures, take them out of context and formulate what you believe by your own interpretation of the Word of God.

If you don't assume that it is pre-trib and a person reads the New Testament for the first time, with no preconceived ideas or teachings, they will understand it will be post tribulation rapture. It really is that simple to understand!

Why would God beat up his bride before he comes to get her? That is one of the questions asked by pre-trib believers and when they ask the question, the first thing that comes to mind is they remind me of the ten spies that came back full of fear and saw themselves and grasshoppers. Well for some time now it appears as if the church has been walking in the desert and many of our elders have went on to be with God. I personally think that God will be raising up men and women with the likeness of Joshua and Caleb mentality ready to take on a brave new world. They will be fearless and ready to face off with the anti-christ and his armies.

Simple example of taking things out of context.
1. The church is the bride - female
2. Rev 4:1 They use a man to represent a woman - Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

If a person wants to be honest with themselves and before God - there is no way God would use a man to symbolize his bride, it goes against everything God has done concerning type and shadow. It goes against the nature of God and the way he communicates to us. This is nothing but confusion and God is all about proper order.

Lets go back to Matt 24:35-36

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In it's true context verse 36 has nothing to do with the rapture or the "second coming," it has everything to do with the verse before it concerning the passing of heaven and earth - But of that day and hour knoweth no man. Proper context kills the sacred cow of man's tradition and now you know you've been a sheeple just like I was.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In Luke 21:36 it is assumed, by pre-tribbers, that Jesus is talking about some secret rapture that happens seven years prior to the events described in the scriptures before it. The only way you can do that is by completely disconnecting the verse from the subject matter and link it to something that has never been brought up by Jesus himself. But if you don't assume anything and you keep it in it's proper context, you will know that everything is connected and the rapture is the second coming.

Another form of disconnect is making the Great Tribulation, the Wrath of God. When you fully comprehend the wrath of God, you will understand it is much worse than just great tribulation. When you read the book of Revelations you will find only three instances of wrath, before the 1,000 years of peace, and that is when he is on his way.

1. Rev 6:17 at the end of the seals - For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
2. Rev 11:18 at the end of the trumpets - And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
3. Rev 16:1 at the beginning of the vials - And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

If a person is willing to keep things in proper context they have to put away assuming something to be different from what it is intended to be and not make it something they want it to be.


The Great Tribulation

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Notice it said they came out of great tribulation not the wrath of God because the wrath of God is to punish the sinners but tribulation is to purify the children of God.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10; The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


This is another example in 14:9-10 The only ones that received the mark or worshiped the beast have to endure the wrath of God.


We will have to endure tribulations

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

God called the ones that will reign with him for a 1,000 years, the saints - Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

If we keep things consistent with pre-trib teaching then the saints are the ones that went through the Great Tribulation not the ones that didn't go through it. If we keep that belief system one would have to ask where is the pre-trib bride because there is no mention of her during this event, unless all of a sudden saints include the pre-trib bride. This is another example of disconnect starting from Rev 4:1 until things look favorable and sugar coated.


Marriage Of The Saints

The Marriage of the Saints or the Pre-Trib ChurchRev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

From a pre-trib perspective we don't see the word 'church' mentioned again until 22:16 and that God will not beat up his bride before he comes to get her and that the saints are the ones that got left behind. If that is the case then God has two wives because the wife mentioned here is referring to the saints that went through the Great Tribulation and got left behind not the pre-trib church.

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?Rev 7:14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.If you stay with the teaching of pre-trib then one would have to ask "Why is there no mention of the pre-trib church anywhere in the marriage?"

Verses: Rev 7:14 & 19:7 are connected

According to 19:7, God has always considered the saints his wife and not once did he ever mention they became his wife.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Verse 14:12 shows that they 'keep' not 'started keeping' the commandments of God according to the pre-trib teaching. This is just more proof that from the beginning of the book of Revelations, God has always considered the saints as his wife.


Different Trumpets?

Matthew 24:31 vs 1 Thessalonians 4:16 - We will be looking at the word 'with' in both verses - Strong's numbers G3326 & G1722

I heard a pre-trib teacher say that these were not the same trumpets because in 1 Thessalonians the claim is Jesus comes with a trumpet and in Matthew the angels come with a trumpet.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

G3326
μετά
meta
Thayer Definition:
1) with, after, behind
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a primary preposition (often used adverbially)
Citing in TDNT: 7:766, 1102

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

G1722
ἐν
en
Thayer Definition:
1) in, by, with etc.
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537)
Citing in TDNT: 2:537, 233

When we look closely at the verse in Matthew we see that the angels came 'with'(G3326) the sound of a trumpet but not with a trumpet. The word 'with' could be also mean 'after' the sound of the trumpet but either way they did not have a trumpet because someone else had it.

Now for 1 Thessalonians - Jesus comes 'with'(G1722) or beside the trumpet but in Matthew the angels came as the trumpet was sounded or they came after the trumpet was sounded.

So who blows the trumpet?
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices(G5456) in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever

....with the voice(G5456) of the archangel... = ...The kingdoms of this world are become...

n Aramaic New Testament
Rev 11:15 And angel seven blasts: and a voice of the Rabbi becomes in the heavens, wording, The sovereigndoms of this eon be unto Yah Veh and his Meshiah and he reigns to the eons of the eons.

Mistranslation - 'voices' in Rev 11:15(KJV) should be 'voice or a voice'

G5456
φωνήphōnē
Thayer Definition:
1) a sound, a tone1
a) of inanimate things, as musical instruments
2) a voice2a) of the sound of uttered words
3) speech
3a) of a language, tongue
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: probably akin to G5316 through the idea of disclosure
Citing in TDNT: 9:278, 1287

In Thessalonians, it never mentions that Jesus sounds the trumpet but that he came with it and that he shouts, not blows the trumpet. It is conjecture to say Jesus had the trumpet in his hands because the same word is used that he came 'with' the voice of archangel so it could be implied that he did not come with his own voice - now we know that doesn't make sense. In Matthew it never mentions who sounds the trumpet but that the angels came with the sound. If we just stick with what we can find in the word of God we know that an angel will sound the last trumpet and we can find 7 trumpets in the book of Revelations. Those are the only facts we can find without supposition, inference or insertion concerning the word of God.


What if it is two different trumpets and I am wrong?

Pre-trib trumpet:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Post-trib trumpet:
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Here is the way it would pan out with the word of God
1. The first trumpet happens at the pre-trib rapture
2. The second trumpet happens at his second coming

With these two verses we have the first trumpet and the last trumpet and the last trumpet is found in Matthew 24:31. Both pre and post trib believers know that 1Corinthians 15:52 is the rapture that happens at the last trumpet.

1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

So if you believe in pre-trib and you expect to be raptured at the last trump, then Matthew 24:31 is your goto scripture. Now you understand just how flawed the per- tribulation teaching is, because when you put it together correctly you find yourself in a post-trib situation. Even if you don't compare the two scriptures you still have to deal with being rapture at the last trump that happens at his second coming which is found in Matthew 24. You cannot find in the Bible where there are two separate last trumps - one being for the pre-trib and one being for the post-trib. To argue this point you would have to insert this into the teaching without actually finding it in the scripture. In other words, you would just have to make it up and believe it. There can only be one last trump!


Pre-Trib Evolution

The methodology by which scientists arrive at the conclution of evolution is the same method you use to prove pre-trib.

1. The missing link has never been found but they still believe in it

2. They believe that through nature DNA can change on it's own but science has proven otherwise yet they still want to refute the facts

3. The only way DNA can change is if something has been inserted into it.(Fact) Just like pre-trib cannot be found in the Bible directly, they ignor facts and force the teaching into the word of God. In essence, they are changing the DNA of God's word by adding to it(Fact)

4. They use their educated findings and through a process of inference they arrive at their theory\belief

This is a belief that is inserted into the word of God but not found - It's man made and they have to do it otherwise the tribulation saints would be the church. The teaching of a two part rapture is a heresy because it is taught from opinion not the word of God. The pre-tribulation rapture teaching is part of the great falling away that didn't really set it's roots in the church until around 1830 - 1840 thanks to the heretics Darby and Scofield. The main origin of the pre-trib doctrine came from a Jesuit priest - Manuel Diaz Lacunza S.J.(1731-1801), who used the pen-name Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra for his main work on the interpretation of the prophecies in the Bible. He tried to pass off his work as a Jewish man so that it would be trusted because people do not trust Jesuit priests. It was just more proof that the work was nothing more than deception. Edward Irving found Lacunza's book and translated it into English then Darby became influenced by it and in turn Scofield became influenced.

2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; .

If this is about the Second Coming, then Paul is talking to people that will miss the Pre-Tribulation rapture and he also includes himself as part of this group. The key words ...that day shall not come... What day is he speaking of? The day that they will be gathered together after the anti-christ is revealed and a great falling away.

If this is the Second Coming then these people must still be alive on Earth today in order to be part of it because he was directing this message to them and letting them know what they sould expect to see concerning Christ's return.

More key words: ...Let no man deceive you...

If they were not going to be part of the Second Coming then why should Paul warn them about being deceived and start looking for a different day. Obviously they were not to be looking for a Pre-Trib day but only a Left Behind day.

What if Paul was in a Pre-Trib rapture? You still can't get around the fact that he was addressing these people about not being deceived concerning the day that they will gathered with him at the Second Coming. No matter how you look at it, these people will miss the Pre-Trib rapture if this is about the Second Coming and to be part of it, you would have to be alive after the Pre-Trib rapture. I doubt there is a group of people that has lived for over 2000 years and still alive on Earth today.

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Can You Biblically Prove Pre-Tribulation Rapture
Polling and research was done in 2010 - Only 25% of Christians around the world believe in pre-trib and over the past
2000 years only 1% has believed in pre-trib rapture.
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